Category: Enough to be Dangerous

The Wall Street Journal Sunday, Final response

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 3:25 PM
To: Alexa von Tobel, CEO & founder, LearnVest; Maria Lin, editor in chief, Learnvest, Inc.; Dani Dalesandro, Sunshine Sachs, press inquiries contact for LearnVest, Inc.
Cc: Ann Kaplan, chair of the board, LearnVest; Teri Everett, senior vice president, Corporate Affairs & Communications, News Corporation; Emily Glazer, reporter, Wall Street Journal, News Corporation
Subject: RE: credit score, utilization ratio, closing accounts, LearnVest, fabulous New York bunk

[FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO LIBBY KANE]

Libby Kane, staff writer, LearnVest
740 Broadway, Suite 1002
New York, NY 10012

You wrote, “This ratio of how much credit you’re using to how much credit you could use accounts for about 30% of your credit score.”

That is a bunch of balderdash.

You also wrote, “When you close a card, you lose the credit history that went with it.”

That is pure poppycock.

Who are your sources?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

[MESSAGES BELOW, AND PRIOR EMAIL, WERE ATTACHED] 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 5:49 PM
To: Emily Glazer, reporter, Wall Street Journal
Cc: Ann Kaplan, chair of the board, LearnVest; Maria Lin, editor in chief, Learnvest, Inc.; Alexa von Tobel, CEO & founder, LearnVest; Melissa Rudy; Jennifer Waters, columnist, Consumer Confidential, MarketWatch, Wall Street Journal, News Corporation; John Ulzheimer, The Ulzheimer Group; Teri Everett, senior vice president, Corporate Affairs & Communications, News Corporation
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Wall Street Journal, LearnVest II

What is your editor’s name?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

From: Glazer, Emily
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 4:59 PM
To: ‘greg@creditscoring.com’
Subject: Final response

Hi Greg,

I spoke with my editor and there will be no correction as I have confirmation from my source (who has also emailed you) about the accuracy of the information in the article. I believe I wrote this back to you, as did Alexa and people from LearnVest.

Thank you,

Emily

Emily Glazer | The Wall Street Journal Sunday
[address]
[phone] | [email address] | @emilyglazerwsj

The Wall Street Journal Sunday teams leading metropolitan newspapers with The Wall Street Journal in an authoritative and useful package of original investment news, personal-finance articles and career advice. (For recent stories check out: wsj.com/Sunday)

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 12:51 PM
To: Alexa von Tobel, CEO & founder, LearnVest
Cc: Ann Kaplan, chair of the board, LearnVest; Maria Lin, editor in chief, Learnvest, Inc.; Emily Glazer, reporter, Wall Street Journal
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Wall Street Journal, LearnVest II

When do you return?

[PRIOR EMAIL] 

 

Not Too Big to Let Fail: Wells Fargo (on credit scores in employment)

A Massachusetts state representative, a Believer, fell for the urban legend that employers use credit scores.  Asked for proof, the politician replied: “How to prove? AG Edwards is one I know of.”

A.G. Edwards, Inc. was acquired by Wachovia Securities, who was later acquired by Wells Fargo & Company.

Last month, the Florida Courier gave a Wells Fargo mouthpiece “senior vice president” an editorial column to spout off about credit scores.  The first sentence says, “Many of us are misinformed when it comes to credit.”

Uh– us,  indeed.  It – only – takes – four – clicks from Wells Fargo’s home page to get misinformed by this ridiculous little gem of a bullet point:

Employers often check the credit rating of prospective employees. A solid credit rating reflects positively on your ability to manage your job responsibly.

On the contrary, the consumer reporting agencies all state that they do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

But what is a credit rating (as opposed to a credit score)?  Credit rating is a loose term bankers have thrown around for years, long before credit scores, to strike fear in the hearts of loan applicants.  It was a vague notion of some kind of evaluation of you that only wise bankers knew.  But today, according to the important, big, too-big-to-let-fail Wells Fargo, the terms are interchangeable:

Credit Score
Also known as a credit rating. Many lenders use this numeric calculation of your credit report to obtain a fast, objective measure of your credit risk, and consider your score when deciding whether or not to approve a loan.

Here’s another one (in an education sub-directory, no less):

Credit scores
A credit score — also known as a credit rating — is a numeric value based on the information contained in your credit report. That score (usually between 300 and 850) tells the lender the level of future risk associated with your credit history. The higher the score, the lower the risk.

But if you think linking the terms rating and score is a stretch, and the those instances are merely the result of keyboard finger-flapping by some low-ranking cubicle rat under pressure to write a silly website for a silly bank, then here is something overtly despicable:  Telling children the credit scores and employers urban legend:

8. c. Not just lenders but landlords and employers also use credit scores as a decision-making factor, so it’s important to build a good credit history and achieve a high score.

and

A lower score may even jeopardize your chances for landing a job.

It’s enough to make you fall off the Wells Fargo wagon.

credit score, employers, The Street, Italian same-sex marriage

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:38 PM
To: Brian O’Connell, freelance writer for The Street
Cc: Jeremy Bernerth, assistant professor, Robert H. & Patricia Hines Professorship in Management, Rucks Department of Management, E. J. Ourso College of Business, Louisiana State University; Daniel S. Whitman, assistant professor, Rucks Department of Management, Louisiana State University; John V. Lombardi, president, Louisiana State University; Shannon G. Taylor, assistant proessor, management, Northern Illinois University; John G. Peters, president, Northern Illinois University; Annie Thompson, Springfield press secretary, office of the Governor, State of Illinois; Jack Walker, assistant professor, Rawls College of Business, Texas Tech University; Guy Bailey, president, Texas Tech University
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, The Street, Italy

You’re at it again.

You wrote, “The LSU study points out that 60% of employers now use credit scores before hiring staffers.”

In 2009, when you included in a story you authored the notion that employers use credit scores, I had not yet called it a myth. 

What clarification will you make?

Also, what is a co-signor?  Is that an Italian borrower?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:07 PM
To: Brian O’Connell
Cc: Brian O’Connell; Brian O’Connell; Editors, mainstreet.com; Investor Relations, TheStreet.com; Michael Cooney, Network World; Feedback, thestandard.com; Nancy Schuman, Lloyd Staffing; editor, Long Island Press; Writers Corner USA; Jonathan Maberry, Writers Corner USA; customer Service, The Street; Letters to the Editor, The Street; David Morrow, The Street
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12, 3 not 2

 Please reply.

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 12:10 AM
To: Brian O’Connell
Cc: Brian O’Connell; Brian O’Connell; Editors, mainstreet.com; Investor Relations, TheStreet.com; Michael Cooney, Network World; Feedback, thestandard.com; Nancy Schuman, Lloyd Staffing; editor, Long Island Press; Writers Corner USA; Jonathan Maberry, Writers Corner USA; customer Service, The Street; Letters to the Editor, The Street; David Morrow, The Street
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12, 3 not 2

You have provided three different sources:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/business/07credit.html?_r=2&hp

That links to a story written by Jonathan D. Glater and dated August 6.

http://m.thestandard.com/news/2009/08/13/should-your-credit-report-disqualify-you-job

That links to a story written by Michael Cooney and dated August 13.  It does not contain the word “score.”

http://www.longislandpress.com/2009/08/06/does-bad-credit-a-bad-candidate/

That links to a Long Island Press story written by Nancy Schuman and dated August 6.  The story states, “Full account numbers are not revealed and they won’t see a credit score, but they will be able to see late payments, collections and bankruptcies.”

There is a hyperlink to that story from the Cooney story.  They are not the same story.

If the Schuman story says that scores are not seen on a consumer report for employment purposes, then how can it be your source regarding credit score use by employers?

On June 17, you wrote: “A new job could be on the line, too. Many employers are including credit scores on background checks and any low score could cost you that potential dream job.”

For that story, who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?

What is the name of an employer who uses credit scores?

 

From: Brian O’Connell 
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:58 PM
To: Greg Fisher
Cc: Brian O’Connell; Editors, mainstreet.com
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12, dates don’t lie

Greg

It’s common for web sites to carry stories from original sources that ran the story earlier. Couldn’t find it originally, so I found the same exact story but from a different source (The Standard) since you asked for one.

But I just dug the original up. It’s the same story, though.

The second source is actually dated August 6 – from the Long Island Press – here’s the link . . . http://www.longislandpress.com/2009/08/06/does-bad-credit-a-bad-candidate/

BOC

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:42 PM
To: ‘Brian O’Connell’
Cc: Editors, mainstreet.com; Investor Relations, TheStreet.com; Brian O’Connell; Feedback, thestandard.com; Press, thestandard.com; Jonathan Glater, New York Times; Angela Onwuachi-Willig, University of Iowa; Jon Switalski, state representative, Michigan; Andy Dillan, state representative, Michigan; The Michigan Messenger
Subject: RE: RE: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12, dates don’t lie

Your second source does not use the word score.

But how can it be your source when it is dated after your piece?

 

From: Brian O’Connell
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:07 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Cc: Brian O’Connell; Brian O’Connell; Editors, mainstreet.com; Investor Relations, TheStreet.com
Subject: Re: RE: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12

Hi Greg,

Two sources . . . 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/business/07credit.html?_r=1&hp

http://m.thestandard.com/news/2009/08/13/should-your-credit-report-disqualify-you-job

Best,

Brian O’Connell

Brian O’Connell
The Writers Corner
[address]
[cell]
[office]
[email]

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:55 PM
To: Brian O’Connell; Brian O’Connell
Cc: Editors, mainstreet.com; Investor Relations, TheStreet.com
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12

Please reply.

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:41 AM
To: Brian O’Connell; Brian O’Connell
Cc: Editors, mainstreet.com
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-08-12

You wrote, “For instance, many employers use credit scores to gauge a job applicant’s quality of character.”

Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?

 

From: creditscoring.com [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:08 PM
To: Brian O’Connell; Brian O’Connell
Subject: credit score, employers, TheStreet, 2009-06-17

You wrote: “A new job could be on the line, too. Many employers are including credit scores on background checks and any low score could cost you that potential dream job.”

Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?

 

Comcast typo: Unnecessary extra space in credit score and employers story

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:36 AM
To: Brian L. Roberts, chairman and CEO, Comcast Corporation (via Rudnay address); Linda Carroll, The Body Odd, msnbc.com, Comcast
Cc: Jeremy Bernerth, assistant professor, Robert H. & Patricia Hines Professorship in Management, Rucks Department of Management, E. J. Ourso College of Business, Louisiana State University; Shannon G. Taylor, assistant proessor, management, Northern Illinois University; Jack Walker, assistant professor, Rawls College of Business, Texas Tech; Daniel S. Whitman, assistant professor, Rucks Department of Management, Louisiana State University; Ashley Berthelot, Media Releations, Louisiana State University; Michael Kesterton, columnist, The Globe and Mail, Thomson; Globe and Mail corrections, Thomson; John V. Lombardi, president, Louisiana State University; Melba J. T. Vasquez, PhD, president, American Psychological Association
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, LSU, mainstream, Comcast NBC 

You published, “Employers who use credit scores in their hiring decisions  might be weeding out some of the best applicants, a new study suggests.”  

You used an unnecessary extra space after the word decisions.  Also, the consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.  

You still have not corrected your earlier stories.  If you are too busy to do so, please relinquish controlling interest in NBC to somebody who actually gets journalism ethical behavior.

What is your correction policy?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:10 PM
To: Jeremy Bernerth, assistant professor, Robert H. & Patricia Hines Professorship in Management, Rucks Department of Management, E. J. Ourso College of Business, Louisiana State University; Shannon G. Taylor, assistant proessor, management, Northern Illinois University; Jack Walker, assistant professor, Rawls College of Business, Texas Tech; Daniel S. Whitman, assistant professor, Rucks Department of Management, Louisiana State University
Cc: Ashley Berthelot, Media Releations, Louisiana State University; Michael Kesterton, columnist, The Globe and Mail, Thomson; Globe and Mail corrections, Thomson; John V. Lombardi, president, Louisiana State University; Melba J. T. Vasquez, PhD, president, American Psychological Association
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, LSU, mainstream, NYT latest to fall

The first sentence of the abstract of your research still… [PREVIOUS EMAIL ATTACHED]

AP spreads credit score myth within story about myths

“In fact, FICO points out on its website that it’s illegal to consider age, race, religion, national origin, gender, and marital status in credit scoring.” – Associated Press

“The law allows creditors to use age in properly designed scoring systems.” – Federal Trade Commission, United States of America

More AP nonsense

 

credit score, employers, NY Times latest to fall

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:10 PM
To: Jeremy Bernerth, assistant professor, Robert H. & Patricia Hines Professorship in Management, Rucks Department of Management, E. J. Ourso College of Business, Louisiana State University; Shannon G. Taylor, assistant proessor, management, Northern Illinois University; Jack Walker, assistant professor, Rawls College of Business, Texas Tech; Daniel S. Whitman, assistant professor, Rucks Department of Management, Louisiana State University
Cc: Ashley Berthelot, Media Releations, Louisiana State University; Michael Kesterton, columnist, The Globe and Mail, Thomson; Globe and Mail corrections, Thomson; John V. Lombardi, president, Louisiana State University; Melba J. T. Vasquez, PhD, president, American Psychological Association
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, LSU, mainstream, NYT latest to fall

The first sentence of the abstract of your research still states, “Many organizations use credit scores as an employment screening tool, but little is known about the legitimacy of such practices.”

The Louisiana State University press release still states, “Most companies attempt to justify the use of credit scores because they think such employees will end up stealing, but our research suggests that might not be the case.”

A New York Times report about your study published yesterday at 11:09 AM was changed at 12:15.  Somebody in Austin commented on it (see comments below the Times report)(but only after you gained publicity from somebody in Austin).  Psych Central published a correction, too.

When are you going to board up the trap door?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

[previous message]

Tribune report vs. claim from FICO

“FICO scores have been around since the 1950s, but they didn’t become a major factor in mortgage lending until 1995, when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac began recommending their use to help determine a mortgage borrower’s creditworthiness.” – Chicago Tribune

“First general-purpose FICO score debuts–BEACON at Equifax. (1989)” – FICO score company Fair Isaac

Other myths, urban legends and misinformation

influence > media > newspapers > tribune

Academia’s credit score urban legend goes mainstream

The consumer reporting agencies all state that they do not provide credit scores for employment purposes (ok, well, sometimes they say they do).  It’s a big urban legend.

But, watch this trail of rumor.

“Most companies attempt to justify the use of credit scores because they think such employees will end up stealing, but our research suggests that might not be the case.” – Louisiana State University

↓

“An emerging trend is for companies to use credit scores as an employment screening tool.” – Psych Central

↓

“’An emerging trend is for companies to use credit scores as an employment screening tool,’ says Psych Central, but a new study to appear in the Journal of Applied Psychology “shows no connection between poor credit scores and theft – although some interesting connections were discovered.” – Globe and Mail

But that’s nothing new for the 3rd Baron Thomson of Fleet.

Credit score urban legend spread by academia

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:50 PM
To: Jeremy Bernerth, assistant professor, Robert H. & Patricia Hines Professorship in Management, Rucks Department of Management, E. J. Ourso College of Business, Louisiana State University
Subject: credit score, employers, LSU

You said, “Most companies attempt to justify the use of credit scores because they think such employees will end up stealing, but our research suggests that might not be the case.”

The use of credit scores by employers is an urban legend.

Name a company who uses credit scores in employment screening.

 —
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

@Experian can’t make up its mind on employers using credit scores

While the head of Experian (the sheriff of Nottingham) continues his 2-year resignation, the consumer reporting agency remains internally conflicted regarding the urban legend that employers use credit scores.

The San Francisco Chronicle reports, (Experian spokeswoman Susan) “Henson says the report Experian provides to employers excludes some information given to lenders, such as a credit score, year of birth, any reference to a spouse and “any account numbers not relevant to the hiring decision.'”

Experian, itself, states, “Experian’s Employment Insight report includes similar information about loans and credit cards that is listed in the credit report. It does not include year of birth, spouse reference, account number or credit score, which are irrelevant to hiring decisions” (click on “Bad credit doesn’t impact candidates getting hired.”).

Experian also says: “Employers never get a credit score. Unfortunately, that is a very common misperception” (click on “Do employers actually pull the credit report from the credit reporting company or do they pull just the score?”).

However, elsewhere, Experian says (tweets, actually), http://mashable.com/2011/08/09/linkedin-profile-job-search/ to help get you closer to that job offer (the one that requires a background check complete with credit score!).

And here’s another doozy (as reported by creditscoring.com) from Experian: “More Employers Check Applicants’ Credit Scores.”

Wassup Sheriff Knightman?