Category: Experts

credit score, employers, Advance Publications, insults

From: Yvonne Zipp
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:48 PM
To: <greg@creditscoring.com>
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, Advance Publications’ bad reporting

Greg,

Ignoring the insults, now that I understand your concern, I have put a clarification at the bottom of the piece stating that when an employer does a credit check, they have access to an individual’s credit report, not a credit score.

I hope this addresses your concern.

Best regards,
Yvonne Zipp

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:13 PM, “Greg Fisher” <greg@creditscoring.com> wrote:

Oh.  I see.  So now, instead of credit score, it’s “credit history” and “credit checks,” eh?  I just went on your wild goose chase and read the articles that you provided.

That’s five minutes of my life that I’ll never get back.

None of those pieces used the word score, and neither did your last email.  What are you referring to?  Are you even getting this, or was that just intellectual dishonesty?

Your source left you twisting in the wind.  Who has the authority to make a clarification to your credit score story?

SELF blew off Suze Orman’s regular ridiculous rant— her routine about credit scores.  Do you know something that the editor-in-chief of SELF does not?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

From: Yvonne Zipp
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 12:13 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Cc: Jeff Brown
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative, errors and corrections

Mr. Fisher:

Here are a few articles regarding how a bad credit history can affect a person’s ability to obtain a job. According to The New York Times, “about 60 percent of employers now do credit checks on job applicants — up from less than 20 percent in the mid-1990s.” 

In 2011, California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law limiting the practice in his state. Perhaps you are a resident of California? To my knowledge, such a law does not exist in Michigan.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7919922&page=1#.Tz6GTXLeySo

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2011-04-07-credit-reports-in-hiring-decisions.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/opinion/30mon3.html

Thank you for your interest in my personal work history. In both cases, I was asked to check a box if it was all right for an employer to check my credit history.

Yvonne Zipp
Business Reporter
Kalamazoo Gazette
MLive.com
[telephone number]

 

[previous message]

credit score, employers, Advance Publications, Sent from my iPhone

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:45 AM
To: James Stephanak, publisher, Kalamazoo Gazette; Yvonne Zipp, business reporter, Kalamazoo Gazette; S. I. Newhouse Jr., chairman and CEO, Advance Publications, Inc.; Jeff Brown, executive director, Poverty Reduction Initiative
Cc: Donald Roberts, chairman, Poverty Reduction Initiative; Lucy Danziger, editor-in-chief, SELF (Condé Nast, Advance Publications)
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative, errors and corrections

Mr. Stephanak, do you use credit scores in employment screening?

Ms. Zipp, who are your last two employers?  What do the forms say, specifically, about credit scores?

Mr. Newhouse, see “Suze Orman’s social experiment.”

Mr. Brown, there was a reference to me, but I said nothing in that article.  And, you are wrong about my question.  As you can see, Ms. Zipp is still snowed, believing what you said.  The question is (still): What evidence suggests that an increasing number of large employers (or any employer, at all) use credit scores?

You have not answered it.  Is your answer None?

Are you trying to say that you confused the terms score and report?  Indeed, they are quite different things.

This is not about credit scores as much as it is about the life of a piece of misinformation.  Please do your part.

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

From: Jeff Brown [mailto:director@haltpoverty.org]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:44 AM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Cc: Yvonne Zipp, business reporter, Kalamazoo Gazette; James Stephanak, publisher, Kalamazoo Gazette
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

Mr. Fisher,

Thanks for your thoughts and comments. Its important to distinguish between credit score and credit report and clearly these two have been confused and used interchangeable. As you said in the article quoted here… http://www.smartcredit.com/blog/2010/12/16/credit-scores-used-by-employers-the-myth-of-the-decade/

I guess the question would be…do credit reports get used to impact employer decisions on job applications?

Thanks for your insight.

Jeff

From: Zipp, Yvonne [mailto:YZIPP@mlive.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:33 AM
To: <greg@creditscoring.com>
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

Greg, 

Employers absolutely can ask for permission to review your credit score before making a hire.

In fact, I signed a form giving that permission for my last two jobs.

Best wishes,

Yvonne

Sent from my iPhone

 

[previous message] [next message]

credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:27 AM
To: Jeff Brown, executive director, Poverty Reduction Initiative
Cc: Yvonne Zipp, business reporter, Kalamazoo Gazette; James Stephanak, publisher, Kalamazoo Gazette
Subject: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

See this message and your response at https://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=3436, https://blog.creditscoring.com/?cat=73 and https://blog.creditscoring.com/?cat=13.

You said, “[SIC]Increasing number of large employers are using these scores — not only are you not going to have a good credit score, you’re not going to be able to get a job.”

Employers do not use credit scores because they cannot even get them; the consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.  What evidence suggests that an increasing number of large employers (or any employer, at all) use credit scores?

We don’t know how it’s going to turn out, but we are creating a world of misinformation.  What will you do to stop it?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

[next message]

Suze Orman’s schtick

The consumer reporting agencies all state that they do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

Suze Orman, “internationally acclaimed personal finance expert,” is on tour right now, and tonight, she has a spot on Real Time with Bill Maher [submit question].

Despite the fact that employers do not use credit scores (they cannot even get them), Orman keeps saying (and writing) that employers do use credit scares scores.  It must sell.

Tonight, will she use the same talking point, set the record straight, or neither?  Here are examples of the millionaire’s tour schtick.

Hosted by Allowed to bleat on unquestioned for almost four minutes by the media queen, herself, the expert bloviates, “Now, employers will not hire you unless you have a credit report and a good FICO score” (1:24). Orman gets a pass from the interviewer, Arianna Huffington.

In the article associated with the video, the Huffington Post, itself, says the same thing: “It can also affect their ability to rent an apartment and get a job, as many employers now check credit scores as part of the hiring process.”

Where are all the tough questions?  They just wind her up, and let her go.  Interviewed by an actual namesake–the publisher of ForbesWoman–an oddly agitated, seething Orman said, “And because they have a FICO score, a landlord will rent to them, an employer will hire them, their car insurance will be lower (especially if it’s a good FICO score)” (5:11).

She also said, “In my opinion, credit scoring is obsolete” (1:13) while her mug still sits on the FICO credit score website as she hawks credit scores.

Discussing her legacy (“I’m closer to 61, now, than I am 60.”), the prolific author proclaims to all the people, “I want to create a new scoring system.  I hope they call it the S.O. Score” (5:46).

Oh, brother.

And then (speaking of promoting oneself) there’s the SELF thing, itself.  It is easy to see why Orman would gush, “I love SELF Magazine.” The Condé Nast publication edited out the part about employers and scores.  But they left in the bit about “Suze Orman, the smartest woman about money in perhaps the world.”

Perhaps.

 

Suze Orman’s social experiment

This train wreck is almost unbearable to watch.

Suze Orman, “internationally acclaimed personal finance expert,” is hustling her thing called the Approved Card.  But she doesn’t seem to know what kind of card it is.

The fabulous expert showed up in fabulous Manhattan to talk to Lucy Danziger, the fabulous editor of SELF, the fabulous magazine from the fabulous Condé Nast.  Danziger, who describes Orman as “the smartest woman about money in perhaps the world” asked, “Is this a credit card?”

Looking annoyed, Orman replied, “No!  It’s a debit card!”

Moments later, holding up the card for effect, she said, “It is possible that in 18 to 24 months from right here, a debit card will be deemed to generate a FICO score.”

As the chatterboxes signed off, Danziger said, “And, good luck with your credit card!”

Wagging her finger, Orman yelled, “Debit card!” and gave the camera a stupid look.

Danziger yelled back, Oprah-style, “Debit card!”

Orman hollered, Oprah-style, “Actually–my prepaid card!”

The yelling stopped as they realized what a mess they were making, and Danziger said, soberly, “Good luck with your prepaid debit card.”

Orman replied, deadpan, “No, just prepaid card.”

Ugh.

The worst thing about the interview, however, beyond the credit/debit/prepaid knuckleheadedness (or the bad audio– it isn’t your computer), is that the smartest woman about money in perhaps the world repeated this, now preposterous, urban legend:

“Employers are starting not to hire you if you don’t have a good credit report and a good credit score.”

The consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

Excellent journalist that she is, the editor just said, “Interesting,” swallowed it whole, and let the blowhard continue.

Su–ze — Or–man — just — won’t — shut — up — about it.

And, if you give her any guff, she’ll call you an idiot.

Bring it.

————————————————————————–

UPDATE 2/3/12

Here’s the new video, with the part about employers using credit scores (since they are not) edited out:

 

The Matrix: NBC, Reuters, Suze Orman, FICO and American Public Media

They did the dirty deed, spreading the big credit score urban legend.

Hardy har har.  There’s a tongue in cheek campaign to replace Suze Orman with Reuters’ tough Lauren “I demand a lot of answers” Young. But, in reality, it’s a perfect match.  That is, they both believe the same myth: that employers use credit scores.

Oh, those British and their dry wit.

 

credit score, employers, Consumer Reports

Today, Consumer Reports stated, “‘Your score is used by lenders, insurers, and even prospective employers, to judge how great of a credit risk you are,’ says Amanda Walker, Consumer Reports Senior Project Editor.”

Consumer Reports is not telling the truth.  The consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

Those shenanigans go way back:

Today’s email to Consumer Reports:  

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 10:19 AM
To: Walter D. Bristol, chairman, Consumer Reports, Consumers Union
Subject: credit score, employers, Consumer Reports

Correct this, fire James A. Guest, then resign.

https://twitter.com/#!/creditscoring/status/162542622710312961

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

credit score, employers, Chicago Tribune, 2012-01-13

[for background, see Two and Two: Credit scores fall, AP] 

From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:08 AM
To: Marksjarvis, Gail
Subject: credit scores fall story, 15 to 25.5 percent

You wrote: “According to research released this month by Fair Isaac Corp., which produces FICO credit scores, about 25.5 percent of Americans have credit scores below 599 — a poor score that often interferes with their ability to get a car loan or even other credit cards. That’s far below the long-term average of 15 percent.”

From whom did you learn the 15 percent figure?

 

From: Marksjarvis, Gail
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:04 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Subject: RE: credit scores fall story, 15 to 25.5 percent

Fair Isaac released a study about two weeks ago.

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:51 PM
To: Marksjarvis, Gail
Subject: RE: credit scores fall story, not from news release

FICO’s news release does not mention the 15 percent figure.

You make the same error as the Associated Press story regarding the 25.5% number. Actually, 25.5% are under 600, not 599.

Did you take your information from AP?

 

From: Marksjarvis, Gail
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:17 PM
To: ‘greg@creditscoring.com’
Subject: RE: credit scores fall story, not from news release

Is 15 percent wrong?

 

From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:43 PM
To: Marksjarvis, Gail
Cc: Michael Lev, associate managing editor, business, Chicago Tribune
Subject: RE: credit scores fall story, unnamed sources

I don’t know; I didn’t do the research for the story.

This is the third request. Do you refuse to name your source? Or, did you just make up the number, yourself?

 

From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:13 PM
To: Marksjarvis, Gail
Cc: Michael Lev, associate managing editor, business, Chicago Tribune; Jane Hirt, managing editor, Chicago Tribune
Subject: RE: credit scores fall story, propagation

Your story just appeared on the Fresno Bee’s website.

Who is your source?

From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 1:51 PM
To: Gail MarksJarvis, personal finance columnist, Chicago Tribune
Subject: credit score, employers, Chicago Tribune

You wrote, “Because employers and landlords have access to the scores, it can determine who gets an apartment or even a job.”

Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

credit score, employers, Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education (AFCPE), United State Department of Defense

It is easy to see where Jerome B. Gronfein might have gotten the idea.

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 11:56 AM
To: Sharon Cabeen, president, board of directors, Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education
Cc: David S. Rowe, Work & Family Life financial educator, Naval District Washington Fleet and Family Services
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education (AFCPE), United State Department of Defense

See this message and your response at https://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=3224.

Your website states:  “Our FICO score is used in about everything in our life. From what we pay in interest on loans, car insurance, getting an apartment or even a job and more.”

That statement is inaccurate; the consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

What are you doing to correct that inaccurate information?

You provided the certification program for American Financial Solutions, “a division of the North Seattle Community College Foundation,” who states the same thing.

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

credit score, employers, digitaljournal.com, American Financial Solutions, North Seattle Community College Foundation, Jerome B. Gronfein

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:47 AM
To: Jerome B. Gronfein, chairman, North Seattle Community College Foundation
Subject: credit score, employers, digitaljournal.com, American Financial Solutions, North Seattle Community College Foundation, Jerome B. Gronfein

See this message and your response at https://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=3221.  

Your press release states:  “Credit scores are an integral part of the financial portfolio for Americans. The score wields power on everything from employment opportunities to auto insurance rates and deposits on cell phones to qualifying for a home.

That statement is inaccurate; the consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

What are you doing to correct that  inaccurate information?

—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342