VISA spreads credit score myth then says myths run rampant

One of the major proponents of the credit score/employers myth is Visa, Inc.  Ironically, the credit card company just issued the statement, “Visa Inc. Survey: Credit Score Myths Run Rampant.”

In 2007, Visa took it on the chin for its unsubstantiated statements about credit scores and jobs.  The company, through its Practical Money Skills for Life program replied, “We’re not at liberty to disclose specific employers who use credit scores in employee screening, but we are aware of instances in which this has been done.”

Last year, the person at the center of the 2007 silliness did the deed again.  Visa senior director Jason Alderman wrote, “A poor credit score can impact their ability to qualify for loans, secure favorable interest and insurance rates or even get a job or an apartment.”

Unlike other rumormongers (aka journalists with unnamed sources), Visa knows (or, at least, it says it knows) of instances of the alleged illicit, unauthorized practice.  It’s just that it’s a secret.

Visa:  It’s everywhere (unfortunately).

 

From: “creditscoring.com” <greg@creditscoring.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:36:22 -0500
To: <info@whatsmyscore.org>, <globalmedia@visa.com>, <valmanaf@visa.com>, <jensenp@visa.com>, <chlebowm@visa.com>
Subject: credit score, employers

You wrote, “Many employers have made checking a credit score a mandatory part of the job application process, just as drug testing and criminal background checks are now common requirements for jobs in many industries.”

and

“Credit scores determine… in some cases, whether you get that job or apartment you’ve been hoping for.”

See http://creditscoring.com/influence/government/employercreditscorebelievers.html#visa1 .

Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?

What is the name of an employer who uses credit scores?

 

From: Practical Money Skills for Life [mailto:info@practicalmoneyskills.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:52 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Cc: Mark Flanagan
Subject: Re: credit score, employers

Hello Greg

Our source for this information is the Federal Trade Commission. Please see their Consumer Alert here:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt053.shtm

We’re not at liberty to disclose specific employers who use credit scores in employee screening, but we are aware of instances in which this has been done.

Thank you.

Practical Money Skills for Life Support
http://www.practicalmoneyskills.com

 

From: creditscoring.com [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: February 17, 2009
To: Practical Money Skills for Life
Cc: pcohen@visa.com; info@whatsmyscore.org; globalmedia@visa.com; valmanaf@visa.com; jensenp@visa.com; chlebowm@visa.com
Subject: Re: credit score, employers II, FTC, identity

The word “score” does not appear in that Federal Trade Commission document.

What are the words on that FTC page to which you refer?  Did you see the actual credit score in the employment screening instances?  Does Visa use credit scores in employee screening?

What is your name?

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:31 PM
To: jason@practicalmoneyskills.com
Cc: pcohen@visa.com; info@whatsmyscore.org; globalmedia@visa.com; valmanaf@visa.com; jensenp@visa.com; chlebowm@visa.com; Practical Money Skills for Life
Subject: RE: credit score, employers III, survey

Did you include a question about employers using credit scores?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

Content farm urban myth about credit scores and employers

From: Greg Fisher [greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 2:28 PM
To: Philip Anschutz
Subject: credit score, employers, examiner.com, wallow in economic despair

You published these sentences:

“All over the United States, employers continually discriminate not only because of age, gender or race they now use credit scores, religion, and even being unemployed as reason enough to keep one from landing a job.”

“It wasn’t until around 2000 that credit scores were actually becoming more of an issue in terms of eligibility for securing employment.”

“So, if a person falls behind in just one utility bill for example there[SIC] credit score suffers and so does that person’s ability to secure either a better job or just to get a job.”

“All because of the employer sets the criteria for employment not really based on ones[SIC] ability, experience, or knowledge on how to actually do the job, but solely based on a credit score.”

“Until a national awareness that any form of discrimination whether it is age, sex, religion, race, a low credit score, or just being unemployed deters real economic growth by allowing employees and prospective employees the ability to have access to gain mobility up the economic ladder the United States will only continue to wallow in economic despair.”

The consumer reporting agencies do not sell credit scores for employment purposes.

What is your correction policy?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

[next message]

NASDAQ.com 1 click away from quiz containing myth spread by Kiplinger

After you read the NASDAQ.com story with the common title, “How to Improve your Credit Score,” the writer invites you to take her credit score quiz (titled with another tired cliche: “Do You Know the Score on Your Credit?”).  Then, she slams you when you give the correct answer to one of her quiz questions.

Question 2 is “A bad credit score could affect your ability to get a job.”

If you respond with the correct answer, “B. False,” a message in bold, red letters exclaims, “Sorry, wrong!”

The consumer reporting agencies all state that they do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.  The Kiplinger’s contributing editor is the same excited Today Show guest (at 5:15) in the creditscoring.com video of electronic media journalists spreading the employers-use-credit-scores myth. She’s been doing it for years.

For more about inaccurate information from NASDAQ, see https://blog.creditscoring.com/?tag=nasdaq.

Credit score expert deems inquiries 5 points issue Myth #1

A credit score expert declares that an idea about credit report inquiries is the number one credit score myth.

The Myth

Tom Quinn, who recently departed from Fair Isaac (who wants to be known as FICO), writes that “Myth #1” pertains to the inquiries made to a consumer (credit) report. The top myth, he claims, is that every inquiry for credit costs 5 points in the score system.

To give the myth mongers some credit, the notion has some foundation, since the scoring company uses the number 5 in its brief official statement. However, the fatal flaw is the incomplete explanation in the paragraph mentioning “5 points.” It says that one additional credit inquiry made for the purpose of applying for credit may have no effect, at all, on a person’s score. Then it says that, for others, one additional inquiry would drop the FICO score less than 5 points (indeed, 4 points or less, in other words).

Words matter

But, that is where this consumer appeasement exercise by (oh, alright, FICO) FICO falls apart. It fails the logic test because it means that for others, still, an additional inquiry may cost 5, or even 6 points. And, in turn, for others beyond that, logically, it could mean that the algorithm drops the score 100 points, or even 400 points. Who knows?

That is probably not the case, but mathematically–based on the word problem–possible. If The Wizard had said, “For all others,” instead of just “For others,” you could make the (4-point, at least) assumption.  It is akin to a trick question.

Here is the ultimate inquiry query in this inquiry:  What is the maximum number of points that an inquiry can cost in the Fico credit score?

As unsatisfying as it is, Quinn’s brief and frank statement answers it: “There is no fixed set number of points that an inquiry will cost.”

Life lessons

While opinions vary on which myth is really #1, the one about 5-points-for-an-inquiry is complicated, and soundbite explanations just don’t cut it. When even The Wizard itself uses the phrase “typically only accounts for five points” (key weasel word: typically) it’s enough to pull your hair out.  Quinn’s explanation says that there is no certain number of deducted points associated with an inquiry, and that, generally, “inquiries have a relatively minor contribution” to the score.  Of course, that is not much to hold onto, either. But, perhaps, that lesson of his elegant brevity (the antithesis of this post) is inherent and based in wisdom and real experience from within the system: saying less is more.  Pundits and journalists love to publish numbers, so if you are in an interview and say “5 points,” you had better be sure that the writers get the nuanced part of the the figure, too. The results of the failure to do so can be disasterous.

Fortunately, we have this great, big (almost) world-wide, collective intertwined web thing that we can use to explain things to each other (and make corrections), Kumbayah.

Or not.

The Expert

So, what evidence does Quinn give to back up what he is saying about inquiries? None, but the guy has expertise few can claim: The score company ex-vice president is fresh from Capitol Hill, having testified on behalf of his former employer as late as last year. He joins another former insider, John Ulzheimer, as a credible expert (as opposed to authors blowhards and anybody with a website) making cogent public statements about FICO credit scores.  It ain’t much, verified, or proven publicly–and we can take it on faith or play the cynic–but it’s the best we’ve got.

On the other hand, even Quinn’s platform with the perfect, enviable name, Credit.com, gets it wrong about credit scores elsewhere on the same website.

Meh.  Whatever.  Myths are everywhere.

credit score, employers, Miller-McCune.com

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 10:16 AM
To: Michael Todd, editor, Miller-McCune.com
Subject: credit score, employers, Miller-McCune.com

See this message and your response at https://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=2460, https://blog.creditscoring.com/?tag=miller-mccune and myth.

You published, “If you’re unemployed and you’re behind on some credit card bills or you have a bad mortgage, suddenly your credit score might be another barrier to finding a new job and getting back on your feet.”

Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

credit score, employers, HubPages

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:46 PM
To: Pia Chatterjee, public relations manager, HubPages
Subject: credit score, employers, HubPages

See this message and your response at https://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=2417.  

You published, “Being denied a job based on a credit score is not uncommon, especially if the position requires employees to handle customer personal information such as credit card numbers.”

Asked for your source, your writer said: “Wow. Are you actually getting feisty over this? Ask Carol Biaggi, she says it in the youtube video. My company does check.”

However, in the video, Ms. Biaggi says, merely, “Your credit can be the difference between getting or not getting that mortgage, car loan, credit card, or even that job you want as even employers are looking more and more at credit history.”

Your writer does not name her company.

The consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.  Indeed, elsewhere, one of the people in the video on your page even calls it horribly false, and the myth of the decade.

What correction will you make?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

creditscoring.com beats Federal Reserve again

Trend (views)

(+103) creditscoring.com:

1993 – 2005 – 2027 – 2540 – 2672 – 2702 – 2805

(+58) The Federal Reserve:

554 – 643 – 716 – 1109 – 1194 – 1207 – 1265

(+101) – creditscoring.com (Video 2):

161 – 207 – 308

credit score, employers, promotions, Gannett, Detroit Free Press

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:52 AM
To: Jennifer Dixon, staff writer, Detroit Free Press, Gannett
Subject: credit score, employers, Gannett, Detroit Free Press

See this message and your response at https://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=2393.

You wrote, “They will likely take a hit to their credit score, which can affect jobs because some employers check credit scores before hiring or promoting workers.

Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com

PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

News tip on a silver platter: Experian uses the jobs and credit scores myth again

First, Experian gets blasted by a U.S. senator and the FTC over its goofy FreeCreditReport.com ads.

Next, in a brilliant, original marketing strategy, Experian creates a whole new thing (with another band) at FreeCreditScore.com.

Then, on August 9, from its FreeCreditScore.com Twitter account, Experian tweets

http://mashable.com/2011/08/09/lin… to help get you closer to that job offer (the one that requires a background check complete with credit score!).

[direct link to the Tweet: http://twitter.com/#!/FCSdotcom/status/100998248868741120]

Meanwhile, John Peace, the guy in charge (who just passed the second anniversary of his resignation), is knighted.

Journalists, news organizations, bloggers (at least the ones with guts)–here’s your chance.  Your question for Experian: What job offer requires a credit score?

Ask it, and then just step back and let the fun begin!

But wait, there’s more.  And, even moreAnd more, still.

[Direct link to the Tweet:

McClatchy repeats credit score employers myth through multiple media outlets

[see the previous exchange, and another McClatchy writer’s honorable response to a similar dispute)

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:24 PM
To: Claudia Buck, personal finance writer/columnist, Sacramento Bee, McClatchy Co.
Cc: Peter Tira, communications director, The McClatchy Company; Elaine Lintecum, treasurer, McClatchy Co.; Scott Lebar, senior editor, McClatchy Co., Sacramento Bee; Jerry Egan, deputy business editor, McClatchy Co., Sacramento Bee; Mary Lynne Vellinga, Sacramento Bee, McClatchy Co.; Cheryl Dell, publisher and president, Sacramento Bee, McClatchy Co.; George Le Masurier, publisher, The Olympian, McClatchy Co.; Mark Owings, president and publisher, Bellingham Herald, McClatchy Co.; Bruce G. Ray, president & publisher, The Tribune, McClatchy Co.; Rufus Friday, president and publisher, Lexington Herald-Leader, McClatchy Co.
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, McClatchy Co., Sacramento Bee, FICO claim III

The information you prepared is repeated on these pages:

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/07/25/1736898/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/07/25/2115361/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2011/07/25/1981488/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2011/07/25/1578870/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2011/07/25/1694742/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/07/25/1823496_loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/PFP-LOANREJECTION_5636804/PFP-LOANREJECTION_5636804/

http://www.tnj.com/personal-finance/loan-rejections-soon-come-explanation

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20110731/wire/110729669?p=3&tc=pg

http://www.lakewyliepilot.com/2011/07/25/1203490/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with.html

http://www.loansafe.org/loan-rejections-soon-to-come-with-explanation

Are you there?

Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com

PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

[previous exchange attached]