Credit score inquiries, ”less than five points” Wall Street Journal takes fewer words to describe effect of inquiries than even FICO score company Fair Isaac

TO: Annamaria Andriotis
CC: Jennifer Openshaw, Maria Lamagna, Brian Kelly, Elisabeth Hershman, Fair Isaac, Elizabeth Warren, Oscar Suris
FROM: Greg Fisher
DATE: Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 2:22 PM
SUBJECT: false information, Murdoch, Wall Street Journal, credit score, inquiries, 1,497 #1609aa

I am with the media, I am on a deadline, and I am writing about you, Follower. See this message and your response on the Credit Score Blog.

I know what I don’t know about credit scoring. You wrote, “One credit inquiry will remove less than five points off people’s FICO scores, according to FICO.”

So, you expressed the situation with inquiries in only 13 words. When and where did Fair Isaac (“FICO”) say that, and what is the name of the person who said it?

On different pages, the organization published these sentences

For most people, one additional credit inquiry will take less than five points off their FICO Scores. (17 words)

In general, inquiries have a small impact; typically, a single inquiry can lower a FICO Score by less than five points. (21 words)

For others, one additional inquiry would take less than 5 points off their FICO score. (15 words)

I daresay your explanation is oversimplified. The idea appears to be a talking point– the party line. The same statement, word-for-word, of one above: “For most people, one additional credit inquiry will take less than five points off their FICO Scores.”

Is it possible for an inquiry to lower a FICO score 5 points or more? Perhaps Fair Isaac (who is copied on this message) will provide more information about its secret. The greatest credit scoring expert in the world still works there. If he doesn’t have the answer, nobody does.

Another inquiry enquiry

One guy (he, literally, calls himself the Points Guy) has said “two to five points” so many times that he actually believes himself. Brian Kelly was the subject on another Dow Jones/News Corporation website a couple of days ago. Your colleague writes, “Kelly says that if you’re not getting more value than the annual fee, but you don’t want to cancel the card and lose the years of experience you have with it, which can negatively impact your credit score, you can see if there’s a no-fee card you can switch to with the same issuer.”

HOKEY SMOKE! See Credit Score Myth 8.

And while that guy has a lot of plastic, you need to pay attention to another corker: “The Man with 1,497 Credit Cards”! Try to get me an answer. The poor dude can’t comment on the viral story about him– because he is not even alive! I looked into it. I checked public records in California. #1601T

The Real BIG Credit Score has dozens of factors

Your item also states, “FICO scores are comprised of five factors.”

That is not true. Your statement is Credit Score Myth 5. Who told you that? #myth5

And, nobody is getting a mortgage loan with a credit score of 850. Who is your source?

By the way, isn’t the title of that one, “How to Perfect Your Credit Score,” pushing it a little? Who wrote that headline? #TheHed

Also, tell your supervisor to send a message up your chain of command that I want my comments to a 2008 article restored. I do not participate in such discussions for my health and I am not putting up with Rupert Murdoch’s silly nonsense. Furthermore, the article that was attached to my comments is false. Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it.

There are three comments on your story’s page. Are you going to delete them, too?

I could go on and I think I will. Another article is still false. In its source code is this

meta name=”article.summary” content=”Many employers are checking job candidates’ credit scores, but how big of a factor are credit scores in a company’s eventual decision to hire?”

By now, 8 years after I documented one very bizarre phenomenon, people giggle when they see that error. That it continues (on new and old documents) is truly pathetic. I’m having a big party for the 10th anniversary in April, 2018.

What is your supervisor’s name? I want it to make sure that my messages are getting through to the top person of your organization.

Now, let’s not leave the guest of honor out of the conversation. Wells Fargo states, definitively, that a credit score is also known as a “credit rating.”

That is debatable, but here’s the fun part: John Stumpf, the top person of Wells Fargo also states, “Employers often check the credit rating of prospective employees.” #myth2

Hashtag: Myth 2.

FUN FACT: Did you know that Wells Fargo has bank charter No. 1?

Veracity check

Finally, here is today’s truth test of your organization. In an opinion item titled “Democrats’ Zika Obstruction” dated July, the Wall Street Journal states, “Majority Leader Harry Reid recently claimed the bill ‘exempts pesticide spraying from the Clean Water Act.'”

That is false. U.S. Senator Reid is the minority leader, not the majority leader (largely due to his party not being in the majority).

Tell your supervisor about that error of the history of my country written by an unnamed person. I will not stand for it. I demand that your organization correct that error today.

I trust you, Ms. Andriotis, but your company is in no position to decide when this pathetic story of truth and falsity ends. Rupert Murdoch, the top person of your organization, is incompetent, foolish, irresponsible and does not know his place.

What is your correction policy?


Greg Fisher
Truth and Falsity
truthandfalsity.com
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
mobile/text 937-681-3224

New York Times Two – Employers and credit scores myth Mayor and city council pat themselves on the back with false information about employers: Credit Score Myth 2

Employers do not use credit scores because they cannot even get them.

Despite that and eight years of debunking, the mayor of New York said, “Using credit scores in hiring decisions only makes it harder for people facing economic hardship to find a job and restore their personal finances.” #1509N

Bill de Blasio’s preposterous statement is in a September 3, 2015 press release on the official website of the city of New York, New York. It announces a campaign to “educate New Yorkers” on a law regarding credit reports and employment screening.

A city Commission on Human Rights flyer is titled: “YOU ARE MORE THAN YOUR CREDIT SCORE. NYC agrees. A new law prohibits most businesses from checking or using your credit history for employment decisions.”

State senator Jeff Klein follows the mayor’s lead, quoted in the press release saying, “A job applicant should be judged on their skills not on their credit score.” #myth2

In April of 2015, before the vote, a press release on the city council’s website stated, “All New Yorkers deserve the chance to compete for a job based on their skills and qualifications, not three digits on a financial report,” said Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito.

In 2013, councilman Brad Lander led his cause in social media with the cry, “‘one, two, three, four. I am not my credit score!'”

Confronted with the fact that employers do not use credit scores, the politician used a poetic license defense: “Fair point. But sadly, ‘credit report’ or ‘credit history’ (which is what many do use) just don’t rhyme as well.”

The same song-and-dance works for a two-man writing team with members from Harvard University and the Federal Reserve. Their title: “‘No More Credit Score‘ Employer Credit Check Banks[SIC] and Signal Substitution.”

One of the authors replied that “‘score’ is there for the rhyming.”

The Fed publishes such so-called “working paper” documents, designated as such “with the aim of contributing to scholarly debate and soliciting constructive feedback.”

What it does with the feedback is the question.

In April, 2015, a local general-interest newspaper, the New York Times, quoted then-council member Vincent Ignizio saying that his measure would allow citizens to “prove their worth based on their talent, not on past mistakes or a credit score that could be low for many reasons.”

In 2012, the newspaper, itself, exacerbated the myth with an item that said, “The credit score, once a little-known metric derived from a complex formula that incorporates outstanding debt and payment histories, has become an increasingly important number used to bestow credit, determine housing and even distinguish between job candidates.”

The article (as with its effect on man) remains false.

Duke tells students to revise history

[previous message]

From: Greg Fisher (greg@creditscoring.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:39 AM
To: Richard H. Brodhead, president, Duke University
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, myth, falsity, truth, efficacy of a social media message, ivory tower II, falsity

I do not see a reply to my email from you, and I am troubled that I have not noticed any that you might have made. But, the change that you made to your previously false document (if that is your response (and if it is not, then it is the greatest coincidence in history)) gives me, at least, a glimmer of hope for the future of the planet.

However, something else—something fundamental—troubles me even more. You state: “You can always ask a credit card company or other creditor to have negative information removed from your account.  They want to keep their customers happy, so they will commonly oblige your request if you have regularly made your payments on time and just made a few errors.”

That is in your document—available worldwide—titled, “How can I improve my credit score?” and is the biggest crock of nonsense that I have ever heard. But I have heard it before and did what I could to stop it. After publicly following consumer reporting for 15 years, I have heard it all.

The law, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, states

The banking system is dependent upon fair and accurate credit reporting. Inaccurate credit reports directly impair the efficiency of the banking system, and unfair credit reporting methods undermine the public confidence which is essential to the continued functioning of the banking system.

It is no wonder the students and young alumni of Duke have an advantage: They have the power to change history.

I used the microcosm of the myth that employers use credit scores to determine the integrity of mainstream media. In that exercise of herding cats, I found that, largely, media organizations are passive-aggressive: They ignore their problem with accuracy, errors and corrections, and me. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution lives. The New York Times (the metaphor as well as the actual organization) needs no formal license to exist, publishes falsity (even about American history) and answers to no one. Now that that exhaustive (and exhausting) 5-year study of mine is over, as I crawl out of that rabbit hole of ridiculousness and into the light on the surface, I find ridiculousness ten-fold and growing.

But institutions of higher learning are not cats. They are (to use a fourth metaphor) a different animal, and, in some cases—as with public institutions, for instance—do, indeed, answer to higher authority. Although that appears not to be the case with you, your affiliation with a religious organization indicates a relationship to a higher moral authority, at least.

To whom Experian and its leaders ultimately answer in regard to misinformation, today, is confusing to me: Is it the Federal Trade Commission or Elizabeth Warren’s notion, the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection (who likes to call itself the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau).

And so, since I have not seen a reply from you, I will now berate you with a prediction: You will change your website regarding that bunk about begging a creditor to create a history that never was, and, indeed, sir, suggesting that banks commonly lie to credit bureaus. It is heresy. Your outrageous suggestion impairs the efficiency of the banking system and undermines public confidence.

Have some dignity.


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342
937-681-3224

Truth, falsity and myth in the Ivory Tower

From: Greg Fisher (greg@creditscoring.com)
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:27 AM
To: Richard H. Brodhead, president, Duke University; Richard H. Brodhead, president, Duke University (via public affairs office); Irene Jasper, director, Student Lending, Duke University; Personal Finance@Duke, Duke University
Cc: Alex Rosenberg, Department of Philosophy, Duke University
Subject: credit score, employers, myth, falsity, truth, efficacy of a social media message, ivory tower

See this message and your response at http://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=5408.

Your website states: “A poor credit score may mean having to make a large deposit in order to open an account with the electric company or to sign a new lease.  It could even mean the loss of job opportunities.”

What is the name of the person who wrote that?

Experian claims, “Creditors, landlords, and even some employers consider a person’s credit score before deciding whether they will approve a loan, lease an apartment, or hire an applicant.” However, Experian also states, “No, Experian’s business policy prevents the inclusion of credit scores with an employment report, at Experian called Employment Insight.”

Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it. See a five-year account of false statements (including yours, now), in this bizarre and fascinating phenomenon, documented at creditscoring.com. Apparently, you have not noticed the pages behind the links above. During your social media chat with Experian, will you address the notion regarding credit scores in employment alleged on your websites?

What evidence proves that employers use credit scores? What prompted the statement in your document? I am attempting to track the myth to its original source. Who provided—or how you came about—the misinformation is valuable.

Today, please acknowledge receiving this message.

There are many false statements; the one mentioned above has serious consequences. I believe that you and Experian have the burden to prove that your statements are true. Neither of you have provided any evidence.


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

[next message]

Slapdash research

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:18 PM
To: Tim Grant, reporter, personal finance, housing and banking, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Block Communications)
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, anonymity II

See this message and your response at http://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=5404.

You still have not answered the questions.  I will reiterate.

You wrote

With the possible exception of your Social Security number, your credit score might be the most important number in your life.

It affects every area of personal finances as far as the interest rates paid on loans, premiums for insurance and in some cases whether or not someone qualifies to work in certain career fields.

I asked for your source regarding credit score use by employers. You replied: “Sorry for the very delayed response, but I’m been swamped with urgent assignments and projects. From what I understand based on the research I’ve done, a bankruptcy or a very low credit score can impact a person’s security clearance for certain government jobs.”

Then, I asked if you intended to use anonymous sources. I have not received your reply, and there is no correction at the bottom of the article. It is intact, and anybody reading it will be misinformed.

Now you write: “The importance of credit reports and credit scores has gone way beyond the original purpose of gauging the likelihood of someone repaying a loan. Insurance companies use them to determine who is a safe driver and employers use them to evaluate potential employees.”

Who are your sources?

What is unclear about my question from January of 2011?

The newspaper you write for, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, has not responded to a message I sent 24 hours ago. And, lest you or the people running your organization think that you operate in a vacuum, see your false words copied and republished elsewhere by Technology Marketing Corporation.

I am not putting up with it. Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it. Tell your publisher, and reply today.


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

Quicken Loans nonsense, and Gilbert’s bitterness about credit scores

Dan Gilbert is bitter.

He made some corrections, but he still has not completed his work.

[previous email exchange]

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:29 PM
To: Bill Emerson, CEO, Quicken Loans; Bill Emerson, CEO, Quicken Loans (via L. Kreder); Bill Emerson, CEO, Quicken Loans (via Help address); Bill Emerson, CEO, Quicken Loans (via assistant’s address)
Cc: Dan Gilbert, Fathead; David Quilty, senior editor, Quizzle LLC; Todd Albery, Leader of the Webolution, Quizzle LLC
Subject: RE: Your horrible, recurring errors, follow III

Your website still states, falsely, “Don’t forget: Many employers also check credit scores, especially when you’re in the hiring process.”

That is nonsense. Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it.

Who is your regulator?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

False information spread by Time Warner/CNN

Jeff Bewkes, Time Warner

This is a civics lesson directed squarely at you. If a shadow audience reads it, that’s gravy.

See “Labor Day, 2013 – CNN and the myth about employers and credit scores.” In it, I make the point that your reports of American history and credit scores are factually incorrect. Your websites state that Mitch McConnell is the majority leader of the U.S. Senate. That is not true, and further, it has never been true. While a fine man, Senator McConnell (R-Ky.) is Minority Leader. You can see that plain fact on the Senate’s official history page, “Majority and Minority Leaders and Party Whips.”

You also state that employers use credit scores, and that is not true, either. That fact was a lot harder to prove (and took 5 years; proving that something is not is a lot harder than proving that something is) than the fact of the senator’s position, but there isn’t much debate about it now. If there is debate, your side loses. Hell, you even seem to argue with yourself, publishing, in 2011, “It’s important to note that employers can’t actually see your three-digit credit score,” and then, in 2013, “Insurance companies, landlords, and employers are increasingly checking credit  scores, too.”

Blame VantageScore if you want (actually, that would be a good thing–the more, the merrier), but the CEO of that relatively new gambit of the consumer reporting agencies doesn’t have his act together, either. You are birds of a feather: Too quick on the Publish button, and oblivious.

Despite the proof above (and your having been informed), your pages still make false claims. In addition to those listed on the Labor Day page, here are more examples of you stating Senator McConnell’s title inaccurately. Please, for the sake of the United States of America, stop it today. If you do nothing, this merciless berating will continue.

  1. DNC ad aims at ‘plotting’ by McConnell
  2. CNN’s GUT CHECK for March 14, 2013
  3. Repeal health care law? Forget about it
  4. SOTU Crib Sheet 3/3
  5. Reid Yanks Senate Contingency Plan as House Takes Lead in Debt Talks

And, on the following pages, you published the statement that employers use credit scores. Employers do not use credit scores. I looked into it. The first three stories are dated after April 24, 2008, the date that–within days of the other two–the third of the three main national consumer reporting agencies stated that they do not provide credit scores for employment purposes. The second three are dated prior to 2008. If, by some great miracle (or act of journalism), you come up with evidence or sources, please provide them today. Had you done so in the first place, we would not be here, now.

  1. MYB: Your credit score could prevent you from getting a job – Christine Romans explains” (2013)
  2. Employers are looking at candidates credit scores. Be wary.” (2010)
  3. Settling the credit score” (2008)
  4. How to ace your credit score” (2007)
  5. 8 credit score myths” (2005)
  6. Credit score myths” (2004)

There are other myths that need attention, but if this does not compel you to make corrections, there is a much bigger predicament. Not only is what you are doing wrong in terms of accuracy, it is wrong, ethically. Because of this fundamental problem, we don’t have a well-informed electorate (let-alone a well-informed legislature). Truth is in the balance.

Despite your mass-media megalomania and prolific uploading, there is still hope. But, your action in this moment will stand as a fact of history. Don’t let it slip away.

The propagation of this myth has serious consequences. Today, before you publish another word, make it stop.

No interviews.

Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site (creditscoring.com) – A bleak account
Page A2 (pagea2.com) – Media accuracy, errors and corrections
greg@pagea2.com

cc: Jeff Zucker, CNN
cc: Joseph A. Ripp, Time

AOL’s false information under a new name

As the chairman and CEO of AOL, Tim Armstrong (who, actually, thinks he is Donald Trump) is in charge of a lot of stuff.

Sometime between June, 2011 and today, he rejiggered it, and created a dead link in the process.

How does he expect anybody to keep track of his errors?

Here are some more.

He published, “Additionally, employers must notify the job seeker if their credit score was the reason they were not hired” (as if that is possible in the known universe–employers do not use credit scores).

Elsewhere in in his realm (of non-reality): “Ninety percent of banks use credit scores when they determine finance charges such as interest rates on mortgages and other loans. But it doesn’t stop there — potential employers, insurance companies, landlords, and a host of others use these scores as well.”

Here’s another doozy in the Huffington Post. Obliviously, Armstrong let some guy write, “Last fall, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Speaker Boehner described changes like the chained CPI and more means-testing of premiums for affluent Medicare beneficiaries as (in McConnell’s words) “the kinds of things that would get Republicans interested in new revenue.”

Senator McConnell–while a fine man–is not in the majority party.

But, this is the best: “House Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has an ingenious plan to save us: Repeal Obamacare!”

Wrong party, wrong body.

Mr. Armstrong, meet Mr. Case.

Open letter to Murdoch: 5-year credit score nightmare

Further investigation into the efficacy of a social media message

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 7:37 AM
To: Rupert Murdoch, chairman and CEO, News Corporation (via Julie Henderson)
Cc: Andrew Housser, co-founder & CEO, Bills.com; Michael Lewis, VP/general manager, KTBC FOX 7, Austin, News Corporation; Danielle Douglas, reporter, Washington Post
Subject: credit score, employers, KTBC-TV, Austin, Fox Television Stations, Inc., News Corporation

An open letter to Rupert Murdoch

Rupert Murdoch
News Corporation

Dear Mr. Murdoch:

You published, “A poor credit score can haunt you throughout adulthood, affecting your ability to rent an apartment, finance a car, buy a home or even land your dream job.”

This thing is not a dream; it is a 5-year nightmare.  As I already told you, employers do not use credit scores.  The myth [is] now out of control and has begun having serious consequences.  Send a memo about this to all points of your empire, now.

Please, make it stop.  I’ll talk to you through social media.

Are these messages about the truth getting through to you?  Haven’t you even noticed the big stink?  Are you there, sir?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

Encounter with billionaire about credit score myth

[PREVIOUS EMAIL]

From: Gilbert, Dan
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 10:53 AM
To: Quilty, David; Albery, Todd
Cc: ‘greg@creditscoring.com’
Subject: Fw: Your horrible, recurring errors

Todd and David,

I truly cannot follow this guy’s point below.

Maybe it got lost through all of the bitterness and anger in his email, but as always, I know you guys will try to get to the bottom of it and understand the feedback to determine if there is a change that needs to take place.

Please keep me posted.

Thank you.
Dan G.

[by “below,” Gilbert refers to previous email]

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 12:17 PM
To: Dan Gilbert, Fathead
Subject: RE: Your horrible, recurring errors, follow

Employers do not use credit scores, but your website said (before the error disappeared (“score” is even gone from its headline)), again, that they do.

What don’t you understand about that?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 1:02 PM
To: Todd Albery, Leader of the Webolution, Quizzle LLC
Cc: Dan Gilbert, Fathead; David Quilty, senior editor, Quizzle LLC
Subject: RE: Your horrible, recurring errors, follow II

Hello, Skippy.

Your error disappeared!  Apparently, lax control is the way to become a billionaire.

I’m still waiting for your boss to reply.  In the meantime, take a look at this.  quickenloans.com states, “Don’t forget: Many employers also check credit scores, especially when you’re in the hiring process.”

Wrong.

Also, some guy wrote (and, Mr. Gilbert left on his website for three years), “If you recognize that maintaining a good credit score is a necessary evil in today’s society because insurers, employers and lenders check scores when making offers, you might consider damage to your credit score a negative consequence of walking away from a mortgage.”

Wrong again.

On that guy’s website, you find the reliability meme, as in: “You can complain about this all that you want, but your whining won’t stop from potential employers from checking out your credit score. The justification that I heard is that an employer will want to see if you’re reliable.”

That was “posted” (as the mommy bloggers say) by yet another guy who tells young people, “Your future employers WILL look at your credit score.”

Elsewhere, that guy gushes: “If you want to build your [CENSORED] for ‘credit score’ or ‘debt management’ than[SIC] just say so! Ask me for my advertising rates and I’m sure that we could work something out.”

Yikes.


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342