credit score, employers, Advance Publications, insults

From: Yvonne Zipp
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:48 PM
To: <greg@creditscoring.com>
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, Advance Publications’ bad reporting

Greg,

Ignoring the insults, now that I understand your concern, I have put a clarification at the bottom of the piece stating that when an employer does a credit check, they have access to an individual’s credit report, not a credit score.

I hope this addresses your concern.

Best regards,
Yvonne Zipp

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:13 PM, “Greg Fisher” <greg@creditscoring.com> wrote:

Oh.  I see.  So now, instead of credit score, it’s “credit history” and “credit checks,” eh?  I just went on your wild goose chase and read the articles that you provided.

That’s five minutes of my life that I’ll never get back.

None of those pieces used the word score, and neither did your last email.  What are you referring to?  Are you even getting this, or was that just intellectual dishonesty?

Your source left you twisting in the wind.  Who has the authority to make a clarification to your credit score story?

SELF blew off Suze Orman’s regular ridiculous rant— her routine about credit scores.  Do you know something that the editor-in-chief of SELF does not?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342


From: Yvonne Zipp
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 12:13 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Cc: Jeff Brown
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative, errors and corrections

Mr. Fisher:

Here are a few articles regarding how a bad credit history can affect a person’s ability to obtain a job. According to The New York Times, “about 60 percent of employers now do credit checks on job applicants — up from less than 20 percent in the mid-1990s.” 

In 2011, California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law limiting the practice in his state. Perhaps you are a resident of California? To my knowledge, such a law does not exist in Michigan.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7919922&page=1#.Tz6GTXLeySo

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2011-04-07-credit-reports-in-hiring-decisions.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/opinion/30mon3.html

Thank you for your interest in my personal work history. In both cases, I was asked to check a box if it was all right for an employer to check my credit history.

Yvonne Zipp
Business Reporter
Kalamazoo Gazette
MLive.com
[telephone number]

 

[previous message]

credit score, employers, Advance Publications, Sent from my iPhone

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:45 AM
To: James Stephanak, publisher, Kalamazoo Gazette; Yvonne Zipp, business reporter, Kalamazoo Gazette; S. I. Newhouse Jr., chairman and CEO, Advance Publications, Inc.; Jeff Brown, executive director, Poverty Reduction Initiative
Cc: Donald Roberts, chairman, Poverty Reduction Initiative; Lucy Danziger, editor-in-chief, SELF (Condé Nast, Advance Publications)
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative, errors and corrections

Mr. Stephanak, do you use credit scores in employment screening?

Ms. Zipp, who are your last two employers?  What do the forms say, specifically, about credit scores?

Mr. Newhouse, see “Suze Orman’s social experiment.”

Mr. Brown, there was a reference to me, but I said nothing in that article.  And, you are wrong about my question.  As you can see, Ms. Zipp is still snowed, believing what you said.  The question is (still): What evidence suggests that an increasing number of large employers (or any employer, at all) use credit scores?

You have not answered it.  Is your answer None?

Are you trying to say that you confused the terms score and report?  Indeed, they are quite different things.

This is not about credit scores as much as it is about the life of a piece of misinformation.  Please do your part.


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342


From: Jeff Brown [mailto:director@haltpoverty.org]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:44 AM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Cc: Yvonne Zipp, business reporter, Kalamazoo Gazette; James Stephanak, publisher, Kalamazoo Gazette
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

Mr. Fisher,

Thanks for your thoughts and comments. Its important to distinguish between credit score and credit report and clearly these two have been confused and used interchangeable. As you said in the article quoted here… http://www.smartcredit.com/blog/2010/12/16/credit-scores-used-by-employers-the-myth-of-the-decade/

I guess the question would be…do credit reports get used to impact employer decisions on job applications?

Thanks for your insight.

Jeff


From: Zipp, Yvonne [mailto:YZIPP@mlive.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:33 AM
To: <greg@creditscoring.com>
Subject: Re: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

Greg, 

Employers absolutely can ask for permission to review your credit score before making a hire.

In fact, I signed a form giving that permission for my last two jobs.

Best wishes,

Yvonne

Sent from my iPhone

 

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credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:27 AM
To: Jeff Brown, executive director, Poverty Reduction Initiative
Cc: Yvonne Zipp, business reporter, Kalamazoo Gazette; James Stephanak, publisher, Kalamazoo Gazette
Subject: credit score, employers, Poverty Reduction Initiative

See this message and your response at http://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=3436, http://blog.creditscoring.com/?cat=73 and http://blog.creditscoring.com/?cat=13.

You said, “[SIC]Increasing number of large employers are using these scores — not only are you not going to have a good credit score, you’re not going to be able to get a job.”

Employers do not use credit scores because they cannot even get them; the consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.  What evidence suggests that an increasing number of large employers (or any employer, at all) use credit scores?

We don’t know how it’s going to turn out, but we are creating a world of misinformation.  What will you do to stop it?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342

 

[next message]

Suze Orman’s social experiment

This train wreck is almost unbearable to watch.

Suze Orman, “internationally acclaimed personal finance expert,” is hustling her thing called the Approved Card.  But she doesn’t seem to know what kind of card it is.

The fabulous expert showed up in fabulous Manhattan to talk to Lucy Danziger, the fabulous editor of SELF, the fabulous magazine from the fabulous Condé Nast.  Danziger, who describes Orman as “the smartest woman about money in perhaps the world” asked, “Is this a credit card?”

Looking annoyed, Orman replied, “No!  It’s a debit card!”

Moments later, holding up the card for effect, she said, “It is possible that in 18 to 24 months from right here, a debit card will be deemed to generate a FICO score.”

As the chatterboxes signed off, Danziger said, “And, good luck with your credit card!”

Wagging her finger, Orman yelled, “Debit card!” and gave the camera a stupid look.

Danziger yelled back, Oprah-style, “Debit card!”

Orman hollered, Oprah-style, “Actually–my prepaid card!”

The yelling stopped as they realized what a mess they were making, and Danziger said, soberly, “Good luck with your prepaid debit card.”

Orman replied, deadpan, “No, just prepaid card.”

Ugh.

The worst thing about the interview, however, beyond the credit/debit/prepaid knuckleheadedness (or the bad audio– it isn’t your computer), is that the smartest woman about money in perhaps the world repeated this, now preposterous, urban legend:

“Employers are starting not to hire you if you don’t have a good credit report and a good credit score.”

The consumer reporting agencies do not provide credit scores for employment purposes.

Excellent journalist that she is, the editor just said, “Interesting,” swallowed it whole, and let the blowhard continue.

Su–ze — Or–man — just — won’t — shut — up — about it.

And, if you give her any guff, she’ll call you an idiot.

Bring it.

————————————————————————–

UPDATE 2/3/12

Here’s the new video, with the part about employers using credit scores (since they are not) edited out:

 

credit score employers myth, Advance Publications, Inc.

From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011
To: S. I. Newhouse Jr., chairman and CEO, Advance Publications, Inc.
Cc: John P. Hiner, executive editor, Bay City Times (Advance Publications, Inc.); Matt Sharp, publisher, Bay City Times (Advance Publications, Inc.); Shannon Murphy, reporter, Bay City Times (Advance Publications, Inc.); Karen Rowlader, assistant director of Professionalism, Thomas M. Cooley Law School; Jon Switalski, Michigan state Representative
Subject: credit score employers myth, Advance Publications, Inc.

See this message and your response at http://blog.creditscoring.com/?p=1951.  

In an editorial, you published, “Checking credit scores is no longer a reliable or even fair way to rate job candidates.”

What evidence suggests that employers use credit scores in hiring decisions?


Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio  45409-0342


From: creditscoring.com
To: The Honorable Jon Switalski
Cc: Andy Dillon; Todd Heywood, Michigan Messenger
Date: 3/17/09
Subject: credit score, employer

You said, “If employers are allowed to continue using credit scores in hiring decisions, many hard-working people will be unfairly penalized.”

What evidence suggests that employers use credit scores in hiring decisions?